Interview for BBC

The BBC's Hindi Service is running a series of interviews to discover the unknown side of India's newsmakers. Here, the service's India editor Sanjeev Srivastava talks to yoga guru, Swami Ramdev.

here is the BBC interview

http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/ekmulaqat7jan.mp3

He is hardly the kind of icon one would associate with a new, vibrant and technology savvy India. But for millions across the country, there can be no bigger trendsetter in recent years than Swami Ramdev, also known as Baba Ramdev.

The maverick yoga guru and practitioner of India's ancient medical science, Ayurveda, commands a tremendous hold over public imagination. So how come Swami Ramdev has made it so big in a country where maniacal fan following is usually the exclusive preserve of Bollywood and cricket superstars? The truth is - nobody really has a clue.

Yoga has been practised in India for centuries and there have been several celebrated yoga teachers in the country before. The ancient practice has been elaborated in great detail in historical treatises and texts and Swami Ramdev cannot be credited with inventing it.

Against dogma
Also, whichever yoga teacher one chooses to follow, the basic principles remain the same. So what has he done that has bestowed this unlikely stardom on him? In a country full of religious gurus and saints, Swami Ramdev does not even claim to be God's messenger or a God man.

If anything, he condemns all superstition and retrogressive beliefs. "I don't believe in destiny. Palmistry and all this talk about the lines on your hands deciding your future is nothing but nonsense. So is this talk of sun signs and auspicious and inauspicious time and place," he says.

"Can you identify any moment or place where God is not there? He is everywhere and all the time. So how can any place or time be less or more auspicious?" he asks.

Secretive
Perhaps it is his unique way of logical reasoning which attracts millions to him. Maybe it is his enigmatic persona - he is quite secretive and refuses to divulge his age or any other details about his background. And, he is candid enough to admit that it is a marketing mantra.

"There should be an element of mystery. If everything is known about me, people will be less interested. Till the time they know little about me, they are always curious to know more. It's human nature," he explains.

I think it is his lack of spirituality which attracts his legion of followers most.

After all, there is no shortage of conmen and God men in India who promise to deliver a better after-life, salvation and a life in heaven. But for all of these you have to be dead first. Baba Ramdev offers you something more immediate - you do not have to die to benefit from him. That is why he is modern India's material guru.

He promises you a stress-free, disease-free and healthy life. He even assures cures for several diseases like asthma, blood pressure disorders, heart ailments and even cancer. All these claims are debatable, but his millions of disciples do not seem to care.

After all, there is nothing to lose as yoga has no harmful side effects.

Simple and easy
So thousands throng the early morning yoga camps of Baba Ramdev, now organised almost all through the year in different corners of India. Some television channels also decided to cash in on the Baba's popularity and a couple of years ago, they started beaming live his yoga training sessions.

Soon enough the popularity rating of the TV channel patronised by the Baba went up sharply as hundreds of thousands of yoga enthusiasts started their day with Baba Ramdev's lessons on breathing exercises. There is perhaps another reason behind his popularity. Yoga may be ancient, but he has certainly re-invented it by making it very simple and easy to practise. One need not have an acrobatic, supple and flexible body to practice the Ramdev brand of yoga.

"Earlier I also used to try the really difficult asans [postures]. But gradually I understood there is no need to push and punish oneself needlessly. So now I practise and teach simple breathing exercises which keep one healthy and stress-free," he says. "Life is not for doing yoga. Yoga is for making life better," he adds. There is little known about his past and he does not reveal much.

"I joined a gurukul or a traditional Indian residential school at the age of nine. I used to do nearly 500 push-ups at a time and run about 5km every day. I loved wrestling and could easily defeat an opponent twice as heavy as myself," he says, talking about his early days.

"It was about 20 years ago that I turned to Pranayam [a yogic exercise largely guided by breathing techniques]. Then I also met my yoga guru who asked me to concentrate more on breathing exercises. That's been my life since then," he adds. Baba Ramdev lives a simple life. He dresses in the saffron robes of Hindu ascetics and is a frugal eater, who has not eaten any grains for over 10 years now.

"I never waste time having breakfast. I eat two meals a day and I eat only boiled vegetables and fruits," he says. The only drink he has - besides water - is cow milk. He sleeps on the floor and does not need more than four hours of sleep a night. And, he is a brahmachari sanyasi or a bachelor ascetic.

Not Gandhian
So is he never attracted to women? After all, among his disciples are some very attractive Bollywood actresses. "The thought never crosses my mind. I think I have taken birth to propagate yoga and good values," he says. But the Baba is not all Gandhian.

He loves a good fight and never shies away from controversy. He has quite often courted controversy with his criticism of multinationals - particularly cola giants like Coke and Pepsi - as well as tobacco and liquor manufacturers. Only last month he was in the news for a public spat he had with the federal health minister who asked Baba Ramdev to only concentrate on yoga and not run down Western or allopathic medicine without reason.

"I am not against the Western system of medicine. But why should the minister get so upset if I say that yoga has a beneficial impact on those suffering from heart problems or even cancer? Why does he want me to play down the benefits of yoga when people have benefited from them," he asks?

"In any case what can these governments do? A Saddam can be hanged for killing 142 people. Tobacco companies manufacture death for millions every year. Has one person ever been punished," he wants to know?

Healing the World

And when it comes to healings, the testimonies are legion.

Eight years ago, Shakhdav M Devashryee lost all hope when he lost his sight. In January 2004, he learned yog by listening to Swami Ramdev on TV. He says, "That was my turning point. My confidence level shot up and I was determined to follow the path of my yog teacher and change the lives of many others the way he changed mine. I also wanted to establish victory over my own handicap. Till date, I have taught yog in 11 jails and formed many clubs."

Jayshree Desai, 47, yog teacher based in Mumbai, also narrates her life-changing experience: "I was diagnosed with Hepatitis B, and deemed incurable. My friend introduced me to Swami Ramdev's yog on TV. When I practised it, my acute condition stabilised, and soon to the amazement of doctors, the disease vanished! I resolved to become a yog teacher and have conducted many camps in India as well as in Mexico, Norway and San Diego."

Manik Juneja, a technopreneur from Delhi, says, "My father is suffering from end stage renal failure. His creatinine level was 11, whereas normal creatinine level is around 1. The nephrologist was considering putting him on haemodialysis, when my father started doing pranayaam twice daily, after watching Baba Ramdev's yog camp on TV. Within two months, his creatinine level came down to 5.8. His blood pressure and blood sugar levels are also under control now."

An all-round panacea, yog came to the help of Raghav Dutta, a 23-year old national-level swimmer from Delhi, who says, "After every swimming session, I used to get obdurate cramps in my legs. On my coach's insistence, I attended a week-long yog camp with Swami Ramdev and the cramps just dissolved. I never collected my X-ray reports from the pathology lab."

Swami Ramdev prescribes a blend of home remedies, ayurvedic medicine and yog to combat all diseases. He says, "A day will come when yog and ayurveda will become mainstream therapy."

Firm in his belief that these two disciplines can alone heal mankind of most if not all ailments, he has enlisted millions of practitioners into his bandwagon, including allopathic medical practitioners.

Ashok Chandra, an MBBS-turned-yog guru attached to Swami Ramdev's outfit, says, "I suffered from chronic spondylitis that allopathy could not cure. A couple of years ago I started Swami Ramdev's yog. Bingo, the pain dissolved. Persistence was and is the main key. Eventually, I gave up my medical practice to learn yog." He chortles and adds, "I was proud to be an MBBS, now I am even prouder to be a yog guru."

Yog has always been a non-sectarian discipline, emphasising the universalities of breath, focus and flexibility. Little wonder then that Swami Ramdev's appeal cuts across all sectarian divide.

Doctor Anwar Ali Rana, a yog teacher trained by Swami Ramdev, says, "When I went for Haj, I wanted people residing in the sacred land to realise the magic of Swamiji's yog, so I conducted four camps at Mecca and Madina and also trained three men to teach the practice." He adds, "Honey will always taste sweet to all; the masses at Mecca and Madina embraced yog without a seed of doubt."

Thanks to Aastha's international channel, Swami Ramdev's popularity is spreading over the whole of the Asian continent, as well as Australia, Europe, Africa and even America. Jonas D, an Australian social worker, ardently follows Swami Ramdev's telecasts. He says, "Bloggers from all around the globe were singing praises of the Indian yog guru. I had to try it out, and I must say it was a matter of few days when I felt a boost of energy in my entire system."

Teleguru Par Excellence

Swami Ramdev first shot into the limelight in December 2003 on Aastha channel. Almost instantly, he made an impact, which spiralled with every passing day. In time, he began to parlay his popularity through giant camps of a magnitude never before attempted. More than 20,000 people register for attendance, even though admission is not cheap by any means.

People pay close to Rs 5,000 for the privilege of sitting near the podium, while even the furthest seat commands Rs 500. It is said that he charges Rs 5 lakh for a one-on-one session. Today, all his camps are being telecast live for those who cannot afford to attend them personally.

His first foray abroad with four camps at UK beginning on July 15, may well trigger the beginning of a worldwide yog yatra. Already, he has earned the title of the most likeable Indian in a poll in Pakistan.

His meteoric rise in less than three years can be attributed in part to the power of television. Aastha's spokesperson once said, Swami Ramdev has been to it what Amitabh Bachchan was to Star Plus, a one-man army that has sent TRPs soaring. Arvind Joshi, Distribution Head of Aastha channel, says, "There has been a manifold increase in our TRPs."

Today, Swami Ramdev is a fixture there, appearing twice daily, once in the morning at 5 and again at 8.20 pm. The channel also gives copious publicity to his camps.

Swami Ramdev appears on other channels as well such as Sahara Samay and India TV, eliciting a frenetic response.

The Messiah of Yog

In two-and-a-half short years, swami ramdev has galvanized the great indian public into turning ardent practitioners of yog and pranayama. in the process, millions are losing weight, healing from various ailments and making a bid for optimum wellness

Sneak into any household in India between 5 and 7 am and chances are good that you will find someone sitting cross-legged in front of the television intently following the instructions of a saffron-clad sanyasi, with dishevelled shoulder length hair, eyes that are just slightly crossed and shoulders that are tilted to one side. As the swami parts the folds of his angavastram, he reveals a sinuous, fit physique and when he practises his trademark kapal bhatti, his stomache subsides into a deep hollow, sharply outlining his ribs. No prizes for guessing the name of the yogi. Could it be anyone other than Swami Ramdev?

Seated before a camp of 20,000 or more participants, the swami punctuates his easy banter with a joke or two, or with a request for a testimony. These are inevitably fulsome, describing either a loss of weight, or recovery from one or the other ailment. Occasionally, he extols the great Vedic heritage of India and urges his followers to adhere to it, or ventures into a fluid narration of kitchen remedies for various disorders. Unsurprisingly, he delivers periodic broadsides against western influence, particularly the use of aerated drinks and junk food.

The camera dwells lovingly on the heavyweights sitting in the front row, who range from politicos such as the chief minister of Rajasthan, Vasundhara Raje, chief minister of Chattisgarh, Dr Raman Singh, to film star Hema Malini, and business tycoons, Rahul Bajaj and B K Modi.

None of this would be remarkable in itself but for the fact that in less than two-and-a-half years, this innocuous yogi has single-handedly spearheaded a major national revolution in health and general wellbeing through the systematic practice of yog.

Observes Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, founder of Art of Living, whose runaway popularity has only been challenged in recent times by Swami Ramdev, "If an individual can be credited with reviving yog in this country, it is solely Swami Ramdev. Yog can cure even fatal diseases and Swami Ramdev has definitely proved it time and again. Swami Ramdev has spread yog to such an extent that sooner or later, one has to embrace it."

Agrees Life Positive columnist and yog teacher Shameem Akhtar, "He is the first person to have popularised yog in India at the mass level."

Adds Santosh Sachdeva, author of books on kundalini, such as the Kundalini Diary, "Every morning when I go for my walk, I see people sitting on benches and practising his anulom vilom and kapal bhatti. Even my physician does it. It's astounding to see how one man has changed human consciousness at such a mass level."

Swami Ramdev is living testimony to the power of one. Throughout history, individuals have been the fulcrum that has shifted society to new eras and paradigms. Whether it is the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Marx or Mahatma Gandhi, each created a revolution in ideas and action. Today, it is the turn of Swami Ramdev to create a watershed in Yog awareness. This 5,000-year-old philosophy and practice has been so far restricted to tiny pockets and organisations and has over the years gained more popularity in the West than in the land of its origin. It was left to Swami Ramdev to explode out of all limitations and bring it within the reach of every man.

Today, there's scarcely anyone in the country who has access to a TV, who is not familiar with his name. Lisps four-year-old Sarika, "I like the way Ramdev uncle pulls his stomach in and moves it like a ball. See I can also do it." She sucks her stomach in and surprisingly, she is good for her age.

Shankaracharya Swami Divyanand of Bhanpura Peeth credits Swami Ramdev's Yog for reducing his obesity. There has even been a camp at the Rashtrapati Bhavan on APJ Abdul Kalam's insistence.

Observes film star Hema Malini, "I have personally benefitted a lot by following Swami Ramdev's Yog. Being a dancer, flexibility is very essential. Regular Yog keeps my body well toned and active. I have experienced great relief in my knee joints. Even my skin is glowing better than ever."

Others extol his virtues lavishly, crossing the frontier of hyperbole. Says Kirit Bhaiji, member of the Tulsi Seva Charitable Trust, "We have not been able to keep our country united, either through food, bhajans, language, religion nor culture. Unity in all aspects is possible only through Shri Ramdev's Yog."